Antwar Saloon

[Xiahou]

Looking at it from the outside not knowing the retarded buget or the in your face political message. Looking at the movie from 'hey whats this' kind of view of the previews I've seen on TV it looks like blue cartoon elfs fighting humans in a jungle. Looks like a renter at best. Now knowing all the other baggage it has, Looks like he's going to loose a chunk of that Titanic money.
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[Patch]

James Cameron doing the space marine thing again. How can it suck?
Ok the cartoony cgi mixed with live action is a little dicey and no Bill "Game over man" Paxton but I'll see it in the theater and hope for the best.

[Xiahou]

As far as plot holes just from previes some comments nailed it


http://www.aintitcool.com/talkback_display/42818

some of my favorites

two super powers want to force relocate an indiginous race to expolit a valuable natural resource?
and the leader falls for one of the natives?

I saw this one when it was called Star Trek: Insurrection.

Let's hope the jokes are better this time


No reason to fight the big Smurfs hand to hand...stand off and Gas them from orbit...collect valuable rocks...end of story.

There better be a good reason to spend all that time and money risking physical contact with these things when you could just nuke/gas/beam/irradiate the cockroaches to get rid of them....or is becomes just a silly way to move the film forward.

I want to know about the story...CGI is no longer reason enough to pull the money from my wallet.

Your points:
1. the story DOESN'T matter
2. the VISUALS are great
3. therefore the STORY will be great because it's James Cameron, even though we've just been told the story and it's stupid

ok, shitty CGI, check. redundant played-out story, check. lame font for main title that looks like it was created in Quark in 1992, check. oh, and can we get that Enya Greatest Hits CD worked into the trailer as well? CHECK.
---------------------

Sorry when I heard the over the top 'message' about this my eyes rolled and a bitter taste got in my mouth. a good ol space adventure with Marines sure. Making people to be the bad guy to shove a message down our throats no frickin thanks.
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[Haft]

Well I would say that the CG looks anything but shitty. But I do agree with the whole bit of gassing the little buggers from orbit.

Movie could be good
_________________
I go down to the sea again.
To the lonely sea and sky.
And all I ask is a tall mech,
And a star to steer her by.

[Alpern]

[Xiahou]

Ironic, though that was sadly one of my 'dislikes' of armor I've brought up in the past, I remember penciling that in tiny when I am reading a book where it fit. But then somewhere it was brought up that the war was the means to an end for fleet. While this one is about mining. Had it been just to make war then yes.

Smurf Elves is another term floating around now.
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[AUSKAR]

I like Armor.

I will dislike Avatar because the political message even comes through in the previews (Indians vs. Cavalry or Oil-rich Arabs vs. Greedy American Oil Companies or...) but I will see it because I expect the battle sequences will be very good.

I would like to see a well-made Armor but I don't think it is possible. It seems that almost everyone who thinks it is great does so because of a different reason. Whoever makes it might not think the same things are important that I do.

That would be a great thread - "What do you like BEST in Armor?"
_________________
Visit my web site at LloydDistrict.com.

[Xiahou]

exactly. A good shoot em up aliens humans would be great and darn good movie. But nooooo its gotta get political humans bad aliens good. A little imagination and he could have reversed it and I'd be line to see it. Hell make the humans the sympathetic ones and get the same message across. Sorry I am always going to root for the home team, us being them and all.
I may rent it for the same reasons Auskar is seeing it.
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[Johnnycat]

I'll see it because it is a Cameron film.
_________________
The Force is like duct tape. There's a Dark Side and a Light Side, and it holds the universe together.

[bluewolf]

i wanna see it because its supposed to herald a new age of 3D.... sadly i will only get to see pirate copies so I wont get the 3D effect.... I dont think i have seen a real 3D movie in 3D since Jaws.
_________________
Never surrender freedom for laws that can't affect
criminals; they disobey laws for a living.

--Wayne LaPierre, CNN commentary

[cavemanjed]

I won't pay full pop for it. I'll probably check it out. But yeah, the political message is rampant, and stupid from what I can tell at the moment.

Cavemanjed
_________________
Life will kill ya...but not as fast as Obamacare.

[AUSKAR]

[Patch]

I saw it today and it was fantastic. The special effects look great. The setting for the story was very cool. The story was a little predictable but fun to follow and it was just amazing to watch.
The political message and fact that humans are the bad guys, that some have complained about, is not in your face. In fact it was more like a history lesson than a message. We did wipe out the indians to take their land, so it's not far fetched to believe we would again.

I liked it and will be seeing it again in 3D.

[cavemanjed]

Honestly a good movie, but yes, the anti-capitalism and white man took our lands/oil/fruit etc message beats you over the head mercilessly. Don't pay full pop for it, its decent because Cameron does sci-fi well NOT because its story blows your mind.

On an Ironic side note right after I saw the movie, I saw a burger king(or mcdonalds, one of the two) tie-in pimping the very capitalistic excess the movie rails against. I wonder if the dipshit PR people at that company bothered to read the script before they branded their crap with "Avatar" . More so, I think that tie -in ilustrates in the end the only value that matters to Hollywood is how fast can you stack the Greenbacks.

Cavemanjed
_________________
Life will kill ya...but not as fast as Obamacare.

[Wes Janson]

I deeply, deeply wish that Cameron had given the film some actual depth to the plot. Give the Colonel and the administrator some motivation, some actual character. Steakley created a nicely nuanced villain in Borglyn, but to see such a thing in Hollywood today is virtually unheard of. A friend of mine who's absolutely crazy about Avatar even admitted that there should have been some sort of actual justification for mining unobtanium...a humanitarian pretext for saving people back on Earth, or something that made it vital to society. Instead it's a throwaway McGuffin, and no one in the room bothers to explore or even suggest other possibilities besides killing aliens.

On a purely technical plot point, if a corporation is wealthy and powerful enough that it can send hundreds of well-paid soldiers, squadrons of combat aircraft, and several companies of ground troops across lightyears of space, along with millions of tons of construction equipment, it stands to reason their investment is going to be insanely huge.

Given that, one would think there would be a bit more Command and Control being exerted than simply giving a random corporate suit control over what's obviously the most expensive commercial undertaking in history. Corporations frequently do stupid things, but stupidity on that level is almost inherently impossible due to the intrinsic systems of checks and balances built into a company of that size. If it were simply a conflict of interests, the plot would have been far more understandable. Instead it's a conflict due only to pure ignorance and stupidity on the part of the man in charge of the colony.

[Haft]

Wow, this movie is beautiful. Saw it in digital 3d and damn, gorgeous. The plot was really throw away. I thought the main character was much more interesting in his avatar form. The CG was breathtaking.
_________________
I go down to the sea again.
To the lonely sea and sky.
And all I ask is a tall mech,
And a star to steer her by.

[jeffg]

Me and Hux saw it a couple weeks ago.

I feel pretty much the same way a most do - great visuals, soft script.

For some reason, it seems that people who make movies these days can only manage to devote a lot of their focus to one aspect of the process. It doesn't seem to be a huge stretch to develop a thoughtful script, but even for some really good moviemakers, it just doesn't seem to be that important.

That's why my vote for best movie I saw last year goes to Inglorious Bastards instead of the Star Trek reboot. Bastards had it all in my mind, Star Trek got the cast dead on, the effects were good, with a plot that was distracting because it didn't track well. District 9 was similar in that the plot holes distracted from the point that was trying to be conveyed, and that's a shame, especially with what's going on in Africa.

Jeff

[Alpern]

[jeffg]

It's like Demolition Man,

Murder, Death, Kill

Jeff

[Alpern]

Okay, but what I meant was, what does that have to do with District 9?
_________________
"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." - John Brunner

[jeffg]

Yeah, I know what you meant. I just didn't want to get into a drawn out post for a short comment.

Jeff

[AUSKAR]

I finally saw this movie.

It was pretty, probably the future of film-making.

Except for the blue people, all the heroes (even the dead ones) were traitors (espcially the helicopter pilot), and that fact was a celebrated part of the movie.

Yuck.
_________________
Visit my web site at LloydDistrict.com.

[Lance]

[Deckard]

I just saw Avatar. Yeah, yeah, I know, I am way behind the times. The reasons are twofold. First, I’m in college taking eighteen hours and I barely have time to sleep. Secondly, too many people whose opinion I trust told me that it is visually stunning but it is so weighed down by a liberal agenda that it is insulting. At least, to someone not steeped in liberal thought, which I am not. But I broke down cuz James Cameron made two of the films in my top ten all-timers list: Aliens and Terminator.
If Michelangelo had ever dabbled in using manure as a medium instead of marble I would have the perfectly succinct analogy I am currently at a loss for. Once I pulled out of the stunned stupor the visuals in this film (I saw it in 3D to boot)put me into, or about two hours in, I began to laugh at this thing. The credits said Written By James Cameron. Should there have been a Jr. on the end of that. Surely, Mr. Cameron has an eight-year-old boy who had just learned about how the West was won in school and came home saying, “Daddy, Daddy, I want to write a movie script. I have just the idea.”
Why is it just Americans on this planet anyway? This should’ve been an international force or some kind of StarFleet analog. Why aren’t the future Chinese (or whoever will be the next super power) vying for this incalculably valuable place. I would’ve been more entertained by humanity going at it with these Na’Vi folks stuck in the middle. And then there is the superficial alterity. The trees were trees, just big ones, the Na’vi were tall and blue but still people, and there were horse thingies and hyena do dads. The air is toxic but we aren’t told how. Fire burns just like on Earth, so it’s not a lack of oxygen. James, baby, throw me a bone.
Enough already, I need to stop. This is too easy. The only characters who weren’t essentially cartoons were the ones who were actually cartoons. Every human that wasn’t in the heroes clique were outrageous caricatures devoid of reason. At least have the Colonel say something like, “Look, this is just the way things are, kids, we don’t like it, but we have a job to do. Welcome to real life. It’s a shit sandwich, eat it or starve”. Something, anything to let us know that there is a brain in there, or in the corporate execs head that says, “There’s the way I’d like it to be, and then there’s the way it is,” so I can at least understand why they are all just so utterly irrational. Some people are, but not this many folks. Sorry. Or, come up with an excellent reason why they are so irrational apart from corporate greed. Corporate greed and greed in general can explain a lot. What wasn’t clear is how the enlightenment of this age had been so completely, hopelessly lost. That needed to be explained.
The real solution here was to make this not about the oil/gold/pick-your-precious- substance called unobtainium, which got a real chuckle out of me. Make it about a potent drug that only grows on Pandora, and it comes from the ‘sacred’ trees or something. The need for the super coke that gets you high and elevates or expands mental power would explain the need for the stuff on the individual soldier’s level in a way that simple greed does not. Ooops, that would make this Dune. Ha! Science Fiction. I dare anyone to write something that hasn’t been done…many, many times.
_________________
"I've done . . . questionable things. Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for." -Roy Batty

[bluewolf]

[Xiahou]

I also like your "Look, this is just the way things are, kids, we don’t like it, but we have a job to do. Welcome to real life. It’s a shit sandwich, eat it or starve” quote
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[Xiahou]

http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com?bcpid=42616701001&bclid=38536157001&bctid=63231594001
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...

[cavemanjed]

Much better ending than the actual movie.

Cavemanjed
_________________
Life will kill ya...but not as fast as Obamacare.

[Haft]

I fully agree.
_________________
I go down to the sea again.
To the lonely sea and sky.
And all I ask is a tall mech,
And a star to steer her by.

[bluewolf]

fianlly saw this during the convention in texas and finaly getting a chance to comment since the military blocked the forums.

we can all agree that the movie is visually stunning and pretty much the standard to achieve from here on out in terms of technical application of 3d.

the story itself... I liked it. sure it was an over simplified black and white rant on evil and greed.... but it was a fun to watch simplified black and white rant on evil and greed.

Yes the "heroes" were technically traitors. but we see the same thing in Dances with Wolves, Last of the Mohicans and any story involving the American revolution.

I never saw the main guy as wantonly selfishly traitorous. He seemed very conflicted about the whole thing from jump and was almost forced into traitorous action.

honestly digging into the story at all reveals a bunch of simple minded plot holes to force the story, why didnt the corporation consider digging elsewhere, why couldn't the humans be a little less flat out evil, why couldnt the aliens be a little less flat out good, etc etc etc.

but you know what... honest truth this exact story and worse played out in the story of Cortez conquering the Aztecs (or Mayans or whoever) which is to say that its truely not an impossible story. just simple minded.

I argued the points with a friend and the bottom line for me came to this. Yes your forced to side with traitors and yes it seems to be a story all about the evils of our own society. but truth be told I never once took any of it personal. They could have been elves vs goblins, ET vs Predator, or any other non-me vs non-me. I never once took it personally except to reflect on and understand where my debate partner was coming from.

I think that its imossible to enjoy the movie if you think of the humans as us. or even America. they are characters on one side of a story about two opposing civilizations simple minded, black and white characters ment to push the rant against evil and greed.

/shrug/ so what. unless now you want to defend evil and greed as long as the evil and greed comes from YOUR side.


_________________
Never surrender freedom for laws that can't affect
criminals; they disobey laws for a living.

--Wayne LaPierre, CNN commentary

[Xiahou]

[bluewolf]

military blocks things using blanket searches for words in the metadata of the page.

words like "sex" and porn "Porn" are blocked allong with words like "games" "entertainment" and "Forums"

it does not get everything and if it did not get our site it would not be a big deal. but i dont have a valid argument for exempting the site so even though its an unintentional block... it stays blocked.

PS. It occored to me today that many people have the impression that the main character was a traitor to his country or something... but its clear that they are all Mercenaries. sure he killed humans ... but does this at all change the view in some peoples minds? the fact that he was opposed to a corporation and psudo-military and not really his people or country.
_________________
Never surrender freedom for laws that can't affect
criminals; they disobey laws for a living.

--Wayne LaPierre, CNN commentary

[Irina]

I think I already posted this year, but I don't remember... So, I get to answer Blue (and tack on my own feelings about the movie, of course).

"Traitor" doesn't necessarily mean someone who betrays his country's military. There are many things that can be betrayed -- friends, accomplices, principles, concepts, ideals, etc. etc.

Let's see. Avatar gives us a main character with a handicap with the only background that he was a soldier and had an identical twin brother who became a successful scientist.

Through pure luck, our main character is placed in the situation that's the focus of the movie.

He betrays the people who've brought him into this situation for the promise of getting rid of his handicap.

The situation, by pure luck, turns out relieve his handicap. (The main character would soon grow to prefer this temporary relief from his handicap over "real life.")

As a direct effect of his own stupidity, the main character gets yet another lucky break and the situation changes in his favor.

He approaches the new and improved situation completely irresponsibly, forgets himself, and makes a mess of it for egotistical reasons.

He has a "oops" moment when he realizes that by betraying the people who've brought him into this situation he's put his relief from his handicap in jeopardy (and there's the whole thing about chasing tail, of course, which is part of the mess he's made).

So, he turns around and betrays his former friends, because that's what any outstanding intelligent being does, right?

Through luck, the mess is resolved in his favor.

And, through luck, there turns out to be a way that the relief from his handicap can be made permanent.

The End.

Granted, there's the ambiguous moment when the main character puts aside the chance to have his handicap fixed by his former friends, in order to salvage some of the mess he's made. His motivations are left to interpretation, but, considering everything else in the movie, I'd say it was pride and chasing tail. And maybe some more egotism -- there was a pretty good indication that life "back home" was crappy even with working legs, so why leave the idyllic life on Pandora behind?

So... I'm asked to cheer along a stupid, egotistical guy without scruples while he GETS LUCKY throughout the movie? Hmmm... No, thanks.

Furthermore, mercs or not mercs (human or not) -- those were people. Veterans, according to the main character. How many of them took the job because they have a family to feed and that world's military obviously doesn't take care of its own? How many of them are helping out handicapped buddies back home who weren't fortunate enough to have identical twin brothers in high-tech projects heavily dependent on DNA that were killed in muggings? How many of them are only guilty of not being as lucky as the main character?

No, wait, they are all cardboard cutouts. They're okay to kill since they're obviously only there as stand-ins for the evil imperialistic machine of greed and destruction. You go, you pure, ultimately kind beings who've never had to deal with shortage of supply, illness, natural disaster, or any other hardship, yet are respectably warrior-like, even if there's been no conflict amongst you, except, of course, in legends, because we all know wars in legends, unlike in real life, are good, and poetic, and so honorable!!

But back to the betrayal part. No, the main character didn't betray his military. He only betrayed anyone who happened to trust him (at least once) and, if you want to read deeper into it, he betrayed his heritage (by taking the easy way out of his predicament and ultimately leaving it at: "screw Earth, let the vile place die a slow death even, as long as I gots my two legs, my princess (and all the neat things that come with her), and my luck").

So, to sum up, it was a movie about a flunky who gets lucky despite being egotistical, disloyal, and irresponsible. (with some childish dissertation on good and evil tacked on for "depth" value)

But, boy, was it pretty. So pretty that I didn't regret seeing it even the second time.

[Lance]

Let me be the first to claim, "I did it."

[bluewolf]

[Irina]

En garde, mon ami! =D

[jeffg]

Irina,

I don't know if you're past your max post count for the year, but you've definitely outdone yourself on word count. I had to go back and see that these posts were actually yours.

BTW, I'm wondering what you thought of District 9, if you saw it. If the key word was "lucky" for the hero in Avatar, the words "self preservation" come to mind for the hero in that movie. I didn't find him heroic at all.

Jeff

[Irina]

Jeff -- rambling is one of the few skills I can safely say I've perfected. Now I'm working on actually making sense while I ramble. =)

As far as District 9, hasn't District 9 hunting season been over for a few months now? I guess I'd rather not restart it.

[Xiahou]

[jeffg]

[Irina]

[jeffg]

Yeah, ditto and all that.

Glad I got that out of your system. You can go back to short posting - maybe in 2012.

Jeff

[Xiahou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJarz7BYnHA&feature=related
I posted about these guys first 2 star wars prequel reviews they also did one in the same format for Avatar. Brilliant and hilarious at the same time.
_________________
Where are you John Wayne when we need you...